[scribus] Import CMYK colours correcting from SVG/EPS

[Julian Robbins]

Hi

We've had some fund and games !!

Not directly related to Scribus, but something I only found out about
recently is that SVG files only support RGB colourspace not CMYK.
Because of this, if using Inkscape, and saving in normal SVG format any
CMYK colours are saved into RGB equivalent. If I have a CMYK colour I
export as EPS from Inkscape, it too oddly won't save as CMYK, as
Inkscape still doesn't support this
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/171214

Now what's all this got to do with Scribus ?

Well although the colours themselves when you import these various files
ie SVG, and EPS are ok, the CMYK colour values aren't correct as you expect.

But after creating same files in Illustrator, and saving .ai, .svg and
.eps files, I would expect the .eps at least to show the correct CMYK
values on import into Scribus (using 1.3.6SVN), but it doesn't either.
The colour is more or less the same, but the CMYK values vary wildly.

Loading up the .ai file into Inkscape also doesn't show the right CMYK
values, similar colour match but wrong values.

Am I looking at this the wrong way, but how do people using a complete
FOSS system actually get a a fully correct workflow with CMYK using
Scribus, etc ?

Also, can you get the same actual CMYK colour using a different
combination of values of Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black ? If so,
perhaps this is what's happening - same colour, but different
(incorrect) make up to achieve it ?

[Gregory Pittman]

Post by Julian Robbins
Hi
We've had some fund and games !!
Not directly related to Scribus, but something I only found out about
recently is that SVG files only support RGB colourspace not CMYK.
Because of this, if using Inkscape, and saving in normal SVG format any
CMYK colours are saved into RGB equivalent. If I have a CMYK colour I
export as EPS from Inkscape, it too oddly won't save as CMYK, as
Inkscape still doesn't support this
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/171214
Now what's all this got to do with Scribus ?
Well although the colours themselves when you import these various files
ie SVG, and EPS are ok, the CMYK colour values aren't correct as you expect.
But after creating same files in Illustrator, and saving .ai, .svg and
.eps files, I would expect the .eps at least to show the correct CMYK
values on import into Scribus (using 1.3.6SVN), but it doesn't either.
The colour is more or less the same, but the CMYK values vary wildly.
Loading up the .ai file into Inkscape also doesn't show the right CMYK
values, similar colour match but wrong values.
Am I looking at this the wrong way, but how do people using a complete
FOSS system actually get a a fully correct workflow with CMYK using
Scribus, etc ?
Also, can you get the same actual CMYK colour using a different
combination of values of Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black ? If so,
perhaps this is what's happening - same colour, but different
(incorrect) make up to achieve it ?

My sense of all this is that to fully understand color management, you
need to first of all understand the limitations. It's a bit like
realizing that a concept or phrase in one language may not translate to
another. There can be approximations, but there may not be an equivalent.

RGB and CMYK colorspaces are different. Part of what this means is that
it's not a matter believing that one colorspace that has colors
seemingly outside some other colorspace is somehow superior to its
alternative, but rather to realize that we spend our days looking at
color as transmitted light, and color as reflective light.

So we can look at things out there in the "real world" and look at some
magazine article or ad, some TV show or ad, and not feel that we are
seeing some better or deficient representation of our impression of the
real world in one or the other. Our brains make the translation. OTOH,
if we see a green caste of faces on one or the other, we can see that
within the colorspace we are looking at, this is not right.

What I am trying to suggest is that everything here is relative, that it
must be consistent with itself, not to some outside disconnected reference.

So when you "correct" colors, try to understand the subjective nature of
this.

Greg

[Julian Robbins]

Post by Gregory Pittman

Post by Julian Robbins
Hi
We've had some fund and games !!
Not directly related to Scribus, but something I only found out about
recently is that SVG files only support RGB colourspace not CMYK.
Because of this, if using Inkscape, and saving in normal SVG format any
CMYK colours are saved into RGB equivalent. If I have a CMYK colour I
export as EPS from Inkscape, it too oddly won't save as CMYK, as
Inkscape still doesn't support this
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/171214
Now what's all this got to do with Scribus ?
Well although the colours themselves when you import these various files
ie SVG, and EPS are ok, the CMYK colour values aren't correct as you expect.
But after creating same files in Illustrator, and saving .ai, .svg and
.eps files, I would expect the .eps at least to show the correct CMYK
values on import into Scribus (using 1.3.6SVN), but it doesn't either.
The colour is more or less the same, but the CMYK values vary wildly.
Loading up the .ai file into Inkscape also doesn't show the right CMYK
values, similar colour match but wrong values.
Am I looking at this the wrong way, but how do people using a complete
FOSS system actually get a a fully correct workflow with CMYK using
Scribus, etc ?
Also, can you get the same actual CMYK colour using a different
combination of values of Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black ? If so,
perhaps this is what's happening - same colour, but different
(incorrect) make up to achieve it ?

So when you "correct" colors, try to understand the subjective nature
of this.

Hi Greg

I take your point, but one part of my query was why doesn't Scribus show
the same CMYK values for a colour saved as an EPS file from Illustrator
than what Illustrator does ?

I have a file with Pantone 575CVC green, which is CMYK 60%, 9%, 95%, 50%
as created in Illustrator (used as Inkscape can't accurately save CMYK
values into an svg or eps file).

But when I import the Illustrator eps file into Scribus 1.3.6SVN (or
1.3.3.13), the colour although closely matching in tone what was created
as the eps, has CMYK values 76%, 36%, 100%, 27%

So why aren't the values the same as what's in the Illustrator eps file ?

[Clint Alderman]

I've had the same issue of different percentages between CorelDraw,
Xara, Inkscape, OpenOffice, and Scribus on the "same color."
Achieving color consistency between apps along with the fabled monitor
calibration is more like a Hobbit's journey to Mordor.
From what I've read it is achievable... with many hazards along the way
if not done wisely.

Still seeking wisdom on all this, but worn out from trying.

Clint Alderman

Post by Julian Robbins

Post by Gregory Pittman

Post by Julian Robbins
Hi
We've had some fund and games !!
Not directly related to Scribus, but something I only found out about
recently is that SVG files only support RGB colourspace not CMYK.
Because of this, if using Inkscape, and saving in normal SVG format any
CMYK colours are saved into RGB equivalent. If I have a CMYK colour I
export as EPS from Inkscape, it too oddly won't save as CMYK, as
Inkscape still doesn't support this
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/171214
Now what's all this got to do with Scribus ?
Well although the colours themselves when you import these various files
ie SVG, and EPS are ok, the CMYK colour values aren't correct as you expect.
But after creating same files in Illustrator, and saving .ai, .svg and
.eps files, I would expect the .eps at least to show the correct CMYK
values on import into Scribus (using 1.3.6SVN), but it doesn't either.
The colour is more or less the same, but the CMYK values vary wildly.
Loading up the .ai file into Inkscape also doesn't show the right CMYK
values, similar colour match but wrong values.
Am I looking at this the wrong way, but how do people using a complete
FOSS system actually get a a fully correct workflow with CMYK using
Scribus, etc ?
Also, can you get the same actual CMYK colour using a different
combination of values of Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black ? If so,
perhaps this is what's happening - same colour, but different
(incorrect) make up to achieve it ?

So when you "correct" colors, try to understand the subjective nature
of this.

Hi Greg
I take your point, but one part of my query was why doesn't Scribus show
the same CMYK values for a colour saved as an EPS file from Illustrator
than what Illustrator does ?
I have a file with Pantone 575CVC green, which is CMYK 60%, 9%, 95%, 50%
as created in Illustrator (used as Inkscape can't accurately save CMYK
values into an svg or eps file).
But when I import the Illustrator eps file into Scribus 1.3.6SVN (or
1.3.3.13), the colour although closely matching in tone what was created
as the eps, has CMYK values 76%, 36%, 100%, 27%
So why aren't the values the same as what's in the Illustrator eps file ?

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[John Culleton]

Post by Clint Alderman
I've had the same issue of different percentages between CorelDraw,
Xara, Inkscape, OpenOffice, and Scribus on the "same color."
Achieving color consistency between apps along with the fabled monitor
calibration is more like a Hobbit's journey to Mordor.
From what I've read it is achievable... with many hazards along the way
if not done wisely.
Still seeking wisdom on all this, but worn out from trying.
Clint Alderman

Post by Julian Robbins

Post by Gregory Pittman

Post by Julian Robbins
Hi
We've had some fund and games !!
Not directly related to Scribus, but something I only found out about
recently is that SVG files only support RGB colourspace not CMYK.
Because of this, if using Inkscape, and saving in normal SVG format any
CMYK colours are saved into RGB equivalent. If I have a CMYK colour I
export as EPS from Inkscape, it too oddly won't save as CMYK, as
Inkscape still doesn't support this
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/171214
Now what's all this got to do with Scribus ?
Well although the colours themselves when you import these various
files ie SVG, and EPS are ok, the CMYK colour values aren't correct as
you expect.
But after creating same files in Illustrator, and saving .ai, .svg and
.eps files, I would expect the .eps at least to show the correct CMYK
values on import into Scribus (using 1.3.6SVN), but it doesn't either.
The colour is more or less the same, but the CMYK values vary wildly.
Loading up the .ai file into Inkscape also doesn't show the right CMYK
values, similar colour match but wrong values.
Am I looking at this the wrong way, but how do people using a complete
FOSS system actually get a a fully correct workflow with CMYK using
Scribus, etc ?
Also, can you get the same actual CMYK colour using a different
combination of values of Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black ? If so,
perhaps this is what's happening - same colour, but different
(incorrect) make up to achieve it ?

So when you "correct" colors, try to understand the subjective nature
of this.

Hi Greg
I take your point, but one part of my query was why doesn't Scribus show
the same CMYK values for a colour saved as an EPS file from Illustrator
than what Illustrator does ?
I have a file with Pantone 575CVC green, which is CMYK 60%, 9%, 95%, 50%
as created in Illustrator (used as Inkscape can't accurately save CMYK
values into an svg or eps file).
But when I import the Illustrator eps file into Scribus 1.3.6SVN (or
1.3.3.13), the colour although closely matching in tone what was created
as the eps, has CMYK values 76%, 36%, 100%, 27%
So why aren't the values the same as what's in the Illustrator eps file ?

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I start out with Galaxy Gauge's Color map Pro to get close to what I want.
This marvelous document is printed on heavy stock and coated, so that what you
see is likely very close to what you get. Then with no document active I go to
edit->preferences and set my cmyk palette to Scribus Open Office. I create a
"new" color, give it a name, and use the values from the above referenced
Color map Pro to describe the color.

Galaxy Gauge has wonderful publishing products at very low prices:
http://www.galaxygauge.com/

[Clint Alderman]

Ah! A friend for the journey, thanks!
Hope remains...

Clint Alderman

Post by John Culleton

Post by Clint Alderman
I've had the same issue of different percentages between CorelDraw,
Xara, Inkscape, OpenOffice, and Scribus on the "same color."
Achieving color consistency between apps along with the fabled monitor
calibration is more like a Hobbit's journey to Mordor.
From what I've read it is achievable... with many hazards along the way
if not done wisely.
Still seeking wisdom on all this, but worn out from trying.
Clint Alderman

Post by Julian Robbins

Post by Gregory Pittman

Post by Julian Robbins
Hi
We've had some fund and games !!
Not directly related to Scribus, but something I only found out about
recently is that SVG files only support RGB colourspace not CMYK.
Because of this, if using Inkscape, and saving in normal SVG format any
CMYK colours are saved into RGB equivalent. If I have a CMYK colour I
export as EPS from Inkscape, it too oddly won't save as CMYK, as
Inkscape still doesn't support this
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/171214
Now what's all this got to do with Scribus ?
Well although the colours themselves when you import these various
files ie SVG, and EPS are ok, the CMYK colour values aren't correct as
you expect.
But after creating same files in Illustrator, and saving .ai, .svg and
.eps files, I would expect the .eps at least to show the correct CMYK
values on import into Scribus (using 1.3.6SVN), but it doesn't either.
The colour is more or less the same, but the CMYK values vary wildly.
Loading up the .ai file into Inkscape also doesn't show the right CMYK
values, similar colour match but wrong values.
Am I looking at this the wrong way, but how do people using a complete
FOSS system actually get a a fully correct workflow with CMYK using
Scribus, etc ?
Also, can you get the same actual CMYK colour using a different
combination of values of Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black ? If so,
perhaps this is what's happening - same colour, but different
(incorrect) make up to achieve it ?

So when you "correct" colors, try to understand the subjective nature
of this.

Hi Greg
I take your point, but one part of my query was why doesn't Scribus show
the same CMYK values for a colour saved as an EPS file from Illustrator
than what Illustrator does ?
I have a file with Pantone 575CVC green, which is CMYK 60%, 9%, 95%, 50%
as created in Illustrator (used as Inkscape can't accurately save CMYK
values into an svg or eps file).
But when I import the Illustrator eps file into Scribus 1.3.6SVN (or
1.3.3.13), the colour although closely matching in tone what was created
as the eps, has CMYK values 76%, 36%, 100%, 27%
So why aren't the values the same as what's in the Illustrator eps file ?

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I start out with Galaxy Gauge's Color map Pro to get close to what I want.
This marvelous document is printed on heavy stock and coated, so that what you
see is likely very close to what you get. Then with no document active I go to
edit->preferences and set my cmyk palette to Scribus Open Office. I create a
"new" color, give it a name, and use the values from the above referenced
Color map Pro to describe the color.
http://www.galaxygauge.com/

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[Teodor-Toma Silvestru Muntean]

Hi,?I do an experiment,?incredients?Scribus 1.3.5, Ubuntu 8.10, color spaces RGB -Adobe 1998; CMYK -Fogra27L cmyk coated press.?A Illustrator 10, color space CMYK -US webcoated (SWOP) v2?Photoshop cs2, color space RGB Adobe 1998, CMYK -US webcoated (SWOP) v2?so1) I draw one shape with this colors C:20% M:40% Y:60% K:0% in Adobe Illustrator, save it in this formats, ai (version 7, an eps based); ?ai (version 10, pdf compatible); ?eps; ?pdf2) In Scribus 'import/get vector' the eps, and the 2 ai, the pdf can't import like this, so I make a image frame and import the pdf like image; and make an other one and import the eps again, but an image format this time ( this 2 image I expect to loose the color value because Scribus give a "colorspace: unknow" message), On page this 2 image-frame have closely but not same hue.3) export the document as pdfX-34) open the pdfX-3 in photoshop in cmyk color space and verify the color value'sResultAll ?imported
vector in scribus, then exported as pdf have a corect?C:20% M:40% Y:60% K:0% color valueThe 2 image - frame have closely (how closely, I think, is a subjective appreciation) hue on screen but diff color value ( c:12% ?m:44% ?y:67% ?k:0%)?So, my apreciation is I can use Scribus for print without to much carrie about color alteration. Inkscape isn't have the goal to make 'for print targeted' documents, have goal to make 'for web' (sorry if I'm wrong). The Sk1 project (www.sk1project.org) will be expected to be a 'print targeted', but isn't in stable/usable stage yet.(again sorry if I make mistake)?Forgive me for my english, please.
--- On Tue, 2/23/10, Julian Robbins <julian.robbins at q-par.com> wrote:

From: Julian Robbins <julian.robbins at q-par.com>
Subject: [scribus] Import CMYK colours correcting from SVG/EPS
To: scribus at lists.scribus.info
Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 3:19 PM

Hi

We've had some fund and games !!

Not directly related to Scribus, but something I only found out about
recently is that SVG files only support RGB colourspace not CMYK.
Because of this, if using Inkscape, and saving in normal SVG format any
CMYK colours are saved into RGB equivalent. If I have a CMYK colour I
export as EPS from Inkscape, it too oddly won't save as CMYK, as
Inkscape still doesn't support this
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/171214

Now what's all this got to do with Scribus ?

Well although the colours themselves when you import these various files
ie SVG, and EPS are ok, the CMYK colour values aren't correct as you expect.

But after creating same files in Illustrator, and saving .ai, .svg and
.eps files, I would expect the .eps at least to show the correct CMYK
values on import into Scribus (using 1.3.6SVN), but it doesn't either.
The colour is more or less the same, but the CMYK values vary wildly.

Loading up the .ai file into Inkscape also doesn't show the right CMYK
values, similar colour match but wrong values.

Am I looking at this the wrong way, but how do people using a complete
FOSS system actually get a a fully correct workflow with CMYK using
Scribus, etc ?

Also, can you get the same actual CMYK colour using a different
combination of values of Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black ? If so,
perhaps this is what's happening - same colour, but different
(incorrect) make up to achieve it ?
--
Kind regards

Julian Robbins

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scribus at lists.scribus.info
http://lists.scribus.info/mailman/listinfo/scribus




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[Teodor-Toma Silvestru Muntean]

I repeted the experiment using XaraLX, exported the work to xara-eps files format, imported the vector in scribus, publish it to psd X-3 , verify the change in photoshop.All value have -1% (the 0 remain 0) change after exported from XaraLX, for just 1% procent less I think XaraLX is good replacement for Adobe Illustrator.

--- On Tue, 2/23/10, Teodor-Toma Silvestru Muntean <teodomas at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Teodor-Toma Silvestru Muntean <teodomas at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [scribus] Import CMYK colours correcting from SVG/EPS
To: "Scribus User Mailing List" <scribus at lists.scribus.info>
Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 8:35 PM

Hi,?I do an experiment,?incredients?Scribus 1.3.5, Ubuntu 8.10, color spaces RGB -Adobe 1998; CMYK -Fogra27L cmyk coated press.?A Illustrator 10, color space CMYK -US webcoated (SWOP) v2?Photoshop cs2, color space RGB Adobe 1998, CMYK -US webcoated (SWOP) v2?so1) I draw one shape with this colors C:20% M:40% Y:60% K:0% in Adobe Illustrator, save it in this formats, ai (version 7, an eps based); ?ai (version 10, pdf compatible); ?eps; ?pdf2) In Scribus 'import/get vector' the eps, and the 2 ai, the pdf can't import like this, so I make a image frame and import the pdf like image; and make an other one and import the eps again, but an image format this time ( this 2 image I expect to loose the color value because Scribus give a "colorspace: unknow" message), On page this 2 image-frame have closely but not same hue.3) export the document as pdfX-34) open the pdfX-3 in photoshop in cmyk color space and verify the color value'sResultAll ?imported
vector in scribus, then exported as pdf have a corect?C:20% M:40% Y:60% K:0% color valueThe 2 image - frame have closely (how closely, I think, is a subjective appreciation) hue on screen but diff color value ( c:12% ?m:44% ?y:67% ?k:0%)?So, my apreciation is I can use Scribus for print without to much carrie about color alteration. Inkscape isn't have the goal to make 'for print targeted' documents, have goal to make 'for web' (sorry if I'm wrong). The Sk1 project (www.sk1project.org) will be expected to be a 'print targeted', but isn't in stable/usable stage yet.(again sorry if I make mistake)?Forgive me for my english, please.
--- On Tue, 2/23/10, Julian Robbins <julian.robbins at q-par.com> wrote:

From: Julian Robbins <julian.robbins at q-par.com>
Subject: [scribus] Import CMYK colours correcting from SVG/EPS
To: scribus at lists.scribus.info
Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 3:19 PM

Hi

We've had some fund and games !!

Not directly related to Scribus, but something I only found out about
recently is that SVG files only support RGB colourspace not CMYK.
Because of this, if using Inkscape, and saving in normal SVG format any
CMYK colours are saved into RGB equivalent. If I have a CMYK colour I
export as EPS from Inkscape, it too oddly won't save as CMYK, as
Inkscape still doesn't support this
https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/171214

Now what's all this got to do with Scribus ?

Well although the colours themselves when you import these various files
ie SVG, and EPS are ok, the CMYK colour values aren't correct as you expect.

But after creating same files in Illustrator, and saving .ai, .svg and
.eps files, I would expect the .eps at least to show the correct CMYK
values on import into Scribus (using 1.3.6SVN), but it doesn't either.
The colour is more or less the same, but the CMYK values vary wildly.

Loading up the .ai file into Inkscape also doesn't show the right CMYK
values, similar colour match but wrong values.

Am I looking at this the wrong way, but how do people using a complete
FOSS system actually get a a fully correct workflow with CMYK using
Scribus, etc ?

Also, can you get the same actual CMYK colour using a different
combination of values of Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black ? If so,
perhaps this is what's happening - same colour, but different
(incorrect) make up to achieve it ?
--
Kind regards

Julian Robbins

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http://lists.scribus.info/mailman/listinfo/scribus



? ? ?
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[Peter Nermander]

I think that what some people here seem to forget is that neither an
RGB-value nor a CMYK-value really represents a physical color. They
are not device independant.

To get a physical colour from an RGB or CMYK value you need a
colorspace. The colorspace is the cross reference between numerical
values (RGB or CMYK) and physical colors.

I think that is part of the reason that the values change.

Also CMYK colors can be adjusted by for example under color removal
without losing their hue.

/Peter

[John Culleton]

Post by Peter Nermander
I think that what some people here seem to forget is that neither an
RGB-value nor a CMYK-value really represents a physical color. They
are not device independant.

For this reason I rely on my Galaxy Gauge Color Map Pro. It shows 1,296 CMYK
color swatches, a color wheel with CMYK percentages, and a lot more printed
on heavy stock with a glossy coating. Although it is probably printed offset it
is as close as any aid to do for four color process printing what Pantone
swatches do for spot colors. And it is dirt cheap as well.

[syamsul arifin]

T try to use color management in inkscape's doc properties tools to
make CMYK. I use Photoshop 4 CMYK. Coloring via CMS. I save as SVG.
It's works. Scribus has read it.

Post by John Culleton

Post by Peter Nermander
I think that what some people here seem to forget is that neither an
RGB-value nor a CMYK-value really represents a physical color. They
are not device independant.

For this reason I rely on my Galaxy Gauge Color Map Pro. It shows 1,296 CMYK
color swatches, a color wheel with CMYK percentages, and a lot more printed
on heavy stock with a glossy coating. Although it is probably printed offset it
is as close as any aid to do for four color process printing what Pantone
swatches do for spot colors. And it is dirt cheap as well.
--
John Culleton
"Create Book Covers with Scribus"
Printable E-book 38 pages $5.95
http://www.booklocker.com/books/4055.html
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