[scribus] My thought so far, on Scribus as a serious contender

[Colin]

Hi All

I am not sure if this is useful or not - but whilst I re-compile my book from InDesign into Scribus, I am finding things that I hate and things I love - as well as things that just stop you in your tracks as they just seem wrong, or don’t work as expected

Would it be helpful if I posted this list - which will be an ongoing project - here ??

Cheers
Colin
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[Gregory Pittman]

Post by Colin
Hi All
I am not sure if this is useful or not - but whilst I re-compile my book from InDesign into Scribus, I am finding things that I hate and things I love - as well as things that just stop you in your tracks as they just seem wrong, or don’t work as expected
Would it be helpful if I posted this list - which will be an ongoing project - here ??

Sure, we'd be happy to see your list.

Greg


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[Colin]

Hi All

OK, some thoughts, comments and annoyances.

Firstly, I am not a software tester and I have not always gone back to repeat the problem to check whether it is persistent or not. I am working hard to get this project converted from InDesign to Scribus in the shortest time possible.

I also am not a great one for 'reading the manual’ - when I can, I read one from cover to cover and generally three times. But at the moment time does not allow, so this is a learn as you go project, I apologise in advance if there are topics already covered elsewhere. These are just my own findings and some suggestions for future implementation.

Cheers
Colin

My System:
iMac 27” 5k 2017 running MAC OS 10.13.3

My setup:
Scribus 1.5.3 Appearance: English (UK). Theme: Macintosh. Icon Set: 1.5.1. use small widgets 10pt font menus

What I like:

1. Applying changes to all pages - that feature in some of the properties panes is an absolute boon

2. Pasting is so much more intuitive, click the page you want the item on and it is pasted there - InDesign had a habit of pasting only on the page that filled the screen - often caught me out.

3. I love the implementation of editing Master Pages - so easy, thank you !

4. I love the keyboard shortcut to see Preview Mode - so welcome !

5. The strange behavouir when select dragging (where it continued to move after mouse release) was due to the Wacom tablet I use in my right hand - I use the Mac mouse in my left. The driver is an out of date one.

A nice feature of InDesign was when re-sizing a text frame or image frame, if you clicked and held before dragging, the text or image would move slowly with the frame reposition - allowing for very precise visual placement. In Scribus it stays in its original position until mouse release.

6. I love the implementation of Tabs in the ruler bar, very easy, very sensible and speeds up the flow no end


Questions or What I hate:

1. In the save as dialogue box, you need way too many clicks as you drill down to find the directory you wish to save in. In the Mac finder, as you click on a directory it opens to reveal the tree below, in Scribus you need to double-click - why?

2. Selecting text is a little bit quirky when you are dragging to select - and how do you select ALL text in linked frames - if you drag, it only selects in that frame, if you shift click beginning and end of text nothing happens ?? ‘Select All’, only selects text in the frame you are in - not all text in linked frames, which is no good at all.

3. When dragging a selection, part of which extends out of sight at the bottom (for example) of the page, does not set the document to auto scroll so you can complete the selection - it all has to be visible in the page

4. Character styles: apply style to a character, start typing immediately after and it reverts to default paragraph style - not what I expected. If you select that character with style and type to replace the character it again reverts to default style. I would expect a character style to continue as you type if the carat is after the character with the style. Also if you select the character, I would expect the text propertties box to show the style of that selected character in the drop down for character style - it doesn’t, it shows ‘No Style’.

5. I can’t see if it is possible to change a master text frame to one that you can select and then add new text to. Not a real issue at all, just something that was in Indesign - no need to implement as in reality it is a redundant feature IMHO.

6. My images sometimes have an exclamation mark in the box - I have searched the manual help file to no avail. Clicking on it has no effect. I have checked one file and it is larger than 300dpi and a greyscale.

7. Master Pages, if you have guides on the master page and you apply a different master page with guides in another position, the first set remains ??

8. The properties pallettes started to get in the way as I am working on a double page spread and need all the space. So I changed the font size to 9pt - much better - except that I couldn’t make the pallettes narrower ? A restart of the program forced that and it is now very clean looking. However, the ‘OK’ and ‘CANCEL’ buttons in the Edit Master Pages dialogue box are overlapping - they still work but not with 9pt, I went up to 10pt another re- start and it works now. Some of the text in the drop down menu selectors overlaps to the left.

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[mick crane]

On 2018-02-27 09:37, Colin wrote:
<snip>

I hardly, hardly ever use Scribus (love it ), just because I don't do
that stuff very often.

Post by Colin
4. Character styles: apply style to a character, start typing
immediately after and it reverts to default paragraph style - not what
I expected. If you select that character with style and type to
replace the character it again reverts to default style. I would
expect a character style to continue as you type if the carat is after
the character with the style. Also if you select the character, I
would expect the text propertties box to show the style of that
selected character in the drop down for character style - it doesn’t,
it shows ‘No Style’.

As an infrequent user I also find it difficult applying styles in the
story editor.

Post by Colin
6. My images sometimes have an exclamation mark in the box - I have
searched the manual help file to no avail. Clicking on it has no
effect. I have checked one file and it is larger than 300dpi and a
greyscale.

the image probably has an attribute Scribus doesn't like which will be
explained in the pre-print check dialogue

Post by Colin
8. The properties pallettes started to get in the way as I am working
on a double page spread and need all the space. So I changed the font
size to 9pt - much better - except that I couldn’t make the pallettes
narrower ? A restart of the program forced that and it is now very
clean looking. However, the ‘OK’ and ‘CANCEL’ buttons in the Edit
Master Pages dialogue box are overlapping - they still work but not
with 9pt, I went up to 10pt another re- start and it works now. Some
of the text in the drop down menu selectors overlaps to the left.

I really should get another monitor and put all the properties windows
on another screen.

cheers

mick

[Gregory Pittman]

Post by Colin
1. In the save as dialogue box, you need way too many clicks as you drill down to find the directory you wish to save in. In the Mac finder, as you click on a directory it opens to reveal the tree below, in Scribus you need to double-click - why?

This may be a function coming from your OS. I don't see this in
Linux/Fedora. There also can be come help in setting the Paths in
Preferences.

Post by Colin
2. Selecting text is a little bit quirky when you are dragging to select - and how do you select ALL text in linked frames - if you drag, it only selects in that frame, if you shift click beginning and end of text nothing happens ?? ‘Select All’, only selects text in the frame you are in - not all text in linked frames, which is no good at all.

This is where using Story Editor may help a bit, since it displays all
the text from all the linked frames. You'll need to update your frames
to see the results of any editing you do - it's the icon on the toolbar
second from the right.

Post by Colin
3. When dragging a selection, part of which extends out of sight at the bottom (for example) of the page, does not set the document to auto scroll so you can complete the selection - it all has to be visible in the page

You might try this: drag as far as you can, then with your text still
highlighted, scroll the document down or up, then hold down Shift and
use the arrows to finish your selection. Also, temporarily shrinking the
display size can help.

Post by Colin
6. My images sometimes have an exclamation mark in the box - I have searched the manual help file to no avail. Clicking on it has no effect. I have checked one file and it is larger than 300dpi and a greyscale.

You can also click Preflight Verifier, which should show an explanation
for this warning. Also, don't take the warnings too seriously, if you're
already aware of what it's pointing out, then ignore. It's also worth
looking at the settings in Preferences > Preflight Verifier to see if
you agree with all the settings.

Post by Colin
7. Master Pages, if you have guides on the master page and you apply a different master page with guides in another position, the first set remains ??

I guess this is a bug, maybe a minor one. It seems that once you apply
the Master Page, its guides get applied to the page that it's applied
to. What you can do if needed is to go to Page > Manage Guides... and
under the Misc tab there is a button to delete the guides from the
current page, another from all pages. You might do this before you
switch to another Master Page, since otherwise, you'll have to reapply
your new Master Page to get its guides.


Greg



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[JLuc]

Post by Colin
1. In the save as dialogue box, you need way too many clicks as you drill down to find the directory you wish to save in. In the Mac finder, as you click on a directory it opens to reveal the tree below, in Scribus you need to double-click - why?

You can bookmark commonly used folders :
Once you have reached the directory you wish to save in,
go up one level and drag'n'drop the folder to the left part of the file dialog :
it bookmarks it so it can be reached in one click for future uses.

Post by Colin
2. Selecting text is a little bit quirky when you are dragging to select - and how do you select ALL text in linked frames - if you drag, it only selects in that frame, if you shift click beginning and end of text nothing happens ?? ‘Select All’, only selects text in the frame you are in - not all text in linked frames, which is no good at all.

Using normal wisiwisig mode you can't select over 2 frames or over 2 pages. That's a severe hindrance sometime.

But you can select all text of a linked text frame set using the story editor.

JL


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[Christoph Schäfer]

Gesendet: Dienstag, 27. Februar 2018 um 23:44 Uhr
Betreff: Re: [scribus] My thought so far, on Scribus as a serious contender

Post by Colin
1. In the save as dialogue box, you need way too many clicks as you drill down to find the directory you wish to save in. In the Mac finder, as you click on a directory it opens to reveal the tree below, in Scribus you need to double-click - why?

Once you have reached the directory you wish to save in,
it bookmarks it so it can be reached in one click for future uses.

Post by Colin
2. Selecting text is a little bit quirky when you are dragging to select - and how do you select ALL text in linked frames - if you drag, it only selects in that frame, if you shift click beginning and end of text nothing happens ?? ‘Select All’, only selects text in the frame you are in - not all text in linked frames, which is no good at all.

Using normal wisiwisig mode you can't select over 2 frames or over 2 pages. That's a severe hindrance sometime.
But you can select all text of a linked text frame set using the story editor.
JL

Hi Colin,



You can select text across linked frames without using the Story Editor. Just click into one frame and use Ctrl+A (I guess on a Mac that'd be CMD+A). Now all text has been selected, even though you don't see it -- that's a display issue and one of those things that needs to be fixed before a stable 1.6.0 can be released. You can also select parts of a text across frames by pressing the shift key and using the up/down arrow keys. In this case the display works as expected.


I've filed a bug report: https://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=15177


HTH,
Christoph

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[JLuc]

Le 28/02/2018 à 06:12, "Christoph Schäfer" a écrit :

You can also select parts of a text across frames by pressing the shift key and using the up/down arrow keys. In this
case the display works as expected.

I'm afraid scribus is not up to this feature :
I cant select parts of a text across linked text frames (by pressing the shift key and using the up/down arrow keys or
in any other known ways)

(but yes CTRL+A works fine to select all)
JL


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[Christoph Schäfer]

Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. Februar 2018 um 08:45 Uhr
Betreff: Re: [scribus] My thought so far, on Scribus as a serious contender
You can also select parts of a text across frames by pressing the shift key and using the up/down arrow keys. In this
case the display works as expected.
I cant select parts of a text across linked text frames (by pressing the shift key and using the up/down arrow keys or
in any other known ways)
(but yes CTRL+A works fine to select all)
JL

I just tried on Linux (openSUSE). You're correct, it doesn't work on this platform, but it does on Windows.

Christoph

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[Gregory Pittman]

Post by Christoph Schäfer

Gesendet: Dienstag, 27. Februar 2018 um 23:44 Uhr
Betreff: Re: [scribus] My thought so far, on Scribus as a serious contender

Post by Colin
1. In the save as dialogue box, you need way too many clicks as you drill down to find the directory you wish to save in. In the Mac finder, as you click on a directory it opens to reveal the tree below, in Scribus you need to double-click - why?

Once you have reached the directory you wish to save in,
it bookmarks it so it can be reached in one click for future uses.

Post by Colin
2. Selecting text is a little bit quirky when you are dragging to select - and how do you select ALL text in linked frames - if you drag, it only selects in that frame, if you shift click beginning and end of text nothing happens ?? ‘Select All’, only selects text in the frame you are in - not all text in linked frames, which is no good at all.

Using normal wisiwisig mode you can't select over 2 frames or over 2 pages. That's a severe hindrance sometime.
But you can select all text of a linked text frame set using the story editor.
JL

Hi Colin,
You can select text across linked frames without using the Story Editor. Just click into one frame and use Ctrl+A (I guess on a Mac that'd be CMD+A). Now all text has been selected, even though you don't see it -- that's a display issue and one of those things that needs to be fixed before a stable 1.6.0 can be released. You can also select parts of a text across frames by pressing the shift key and using the up/down arrow keys. In this case the display works as expected.

I'm not seeing this latter behavior to be true with Linux/Fedora 26 --
you can only seem to highlight text in one frame. You can seem to make
it jump to the next frame in the link series, and highlight text there,
but the highlighting in the previous frame disappears, and then some
action like deleting the text only deletes the highlighted text.

Greg


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[Colin]

Post by mick crane
I really should get another monitor and put all the properties windows
on another screen.
cheers
mick

Hi Mick

Yes, I did have two screens too, but the MacPro and the 2nd screen both did not survive the move ! In reality the 27” iMac is perfect, it all fits nicely on one screen and with Scribus palettes either side of the main window, there is still room to view a PDF in a narrow window to the side :-)

Thus far, Scribus is doing a great job and if all goes well it should replace InDesign. I am a bit scared of the stories I am reading about it slowing down with lots of images - this is a training manual and is stuffed full of images.

Hope there is a way around that - anyone know if the viewing resolution affects this ??

Cheers
Colin
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[Gregory Pittman]

Post by Colin

Post by mick crane
I really should get another monitor and put all the properties windows
on another screen.
cheers
mick

Hi Mick
Yes, I did have two screens too, but the MacPro and the 2nd screen both did not survive the move ! In reality the 27” iMac is perfect, it all fits nicely on one screen and with Scribus palettes either side of the main window, there is still room to view a PDF in a narrow window to the side :-)
Thus far, Scribus is doing a great job and if all goes well it should replace InDesign. I am a bit scared of the stories I am reading about it slowing down with lots of images - this is a training manual and is stuffed full of images.
Hope there is a way around that - anyone know if the viewing resolution affects this ??

Viewing resolution does affect it, and you can also temporarily make the
images invisible. With the new image cache, the problem is less an issue
than it used to be.

Greg


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[Christoph Schäfer]

Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. Februar 2018 um 00:02 Uhr
Betreff: Re: [scribus] My thought so far, on Scribus as a serious contender

Post by Colin

Post by mick crane
I really should get another monitor and put all the properties windows
on another screen.
cheers
mick

Hi Mick
Yes, I did have two screens too, but the MacPro and the 2nd screen both did not survive the move ! In reality the 27” iMac is perfect, it all fits nicely on one screen and with Scribus palettes either side of the main window, there is still room to view a PDF in a narrow window to the side :-)
Thus far, Scribus is doing a great job and if all goes well it should replace InDesign. I am a bit scared of the stories I am reading about it slowing down with lots of images - this is a training manual and is stuffed full of images.
Hope there is a way around that - anyone know if the viewing resolution affects this ??

Viewing resolution does affect it, and you can also temporarily make the
images invisible. With the new image cache, the problem is less an issue
than it used to be.
Greg

Hi Colin,



As Greg already wrote, this is an issue of the past. With the image cache and also the new text engine, Scribus 1.5.x has become really fast, even with large amounts of continuous text or many images. Last year I created a photobook with 1.5.4svn that included high-resolution images from a DSLR, as well as four outrageously complex vector drawings (maps from OpenStreetMap). I'm currently finishing a book with lots of text and some high-res TIFFs (c. 250 pages), and in both cases Scribus worked like a charm.


I'm not saying it's a Formula One car yet in terms of speed, but with all the performance improvements in 1.5.x it at least starts to resemble a Porsche or a BMW sports car ;)



Christoph

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[Colin]

I'm not saying it's a Formula One car yet in terms of speed, but with all the performance improvements in 1.5.x it at least starts to resemble a Porsche or a BMW sports car ;)
Thanks Christoph

All very encouraging - some more thoughts etc. . .

Regarding the Save As dialogue box, I cannot see why it is a factor of the MAC OS, when the OS displays it correctly with the tree opening as you select it. Scribus calls up its own dialogue box (not in the OS style) so it may behave differently.

iMac 27” 5k 2017 running MAC OS 10.13.3

Scribus 1.5.3 Appearance: English (UK). Theme: Macintosh. Icon Set: 1.5.1. use small widgets 10pt font menus

What I like:

1. Very much like the pre-flight error checking, seems to pick up everything which is comforting - I also like the export progress bars that pop up - neat ! My problem image file had a resolution of 2400dpi why that is a problem I am not sure.

2. Implementation of the application of a graduated fill to a frame, is wonderfully intuitive. I always hated the way Adobe did it, and if you rotated the frame, all manner of confusion ensued.

Questions or What I hate:

1. PDF export - my Master Page numbers appear lower than they are in Scribus - will investigate (see below)

2. Grouped objects don’t seem to translate very well

OK: these two above are linked as they have to do with graduated tint boxes

1. My Master Page numbers you may remember are white over a graduated tint box - changing that box below the number to solid colour, makes them appear in the correct place. I had a text box with white page numbers over a graduated tint box of green to none. Albrecht suggested filling the text box with a colour instead of having two boxes - I learnt from InDesign that this can be problematic.

Further investigation reveals it is nothing to do with the number box, what is happening in the output, is the tint box is smaller in height than it should be, changing the resolution of the PDF output has no effect.

Deleting these boxes and trying the gradient filled, number text box works fine ! Another win over InDesign

2. The grouped object also included a gradient tint box, I un-grouped it and now the gradient tint box is shown in the correct place - whereas it did not appear at all when the objects were grouped.

3. It is taking me ages to get used to where, items are - in particular ‘Space before Para’ and text alignment within the frame, they seem to be in illogical places. And ‘Space Before Para’ is really useful to apply to any para as it helps get text the same distance below an image, but in Scribus you can only apply it within a style.

Cheers
Colin
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